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PostPosted: March 10th, 2012, 3:08 pm 
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Hooded Merganser
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Well I'm doing my own training and I'm having trouble stopping my pup to the whistle. I'm not using an e collar right now and I'm trying to keep from using one as much as possible. He does fine at short distances but once he gets a ways away he seems to be so focused on the bumper and doesnt pay me any attention. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I just know he's got to get this down before I can teach him to cast.


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PostPosted: March 10th, 2012, 4:07 pm 
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Canvasback
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Have your or are you using a long lead?


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PostPosted: March 10th, 2012, 4:54 pm 
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No I havent tried that can you kinda explain how this works. I've used it teaching a dog to stay before is this the same concept? Explain what I need to do please.


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PostPosted: March 10th, 2012, 5:30 pm 
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Mallard
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What is keeping you from a collar? Its hard to have 300 ft of check cord! Can it be done yes....is it efficient no....you should get on a program and find someone to train with you

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PostPosted: March 10th, 2012, 6:48 pm 
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With a long rope and heavy gloves, you make your dog stop when you whistle as he is on his way to the pile.

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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 8:48 am 
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I'm not against using a collar. My dog is about 9 months old do you think this will kill his drive while on the way to pick up a bumper. The last thing I want to do right now is mess up what he's doing now. I've put post on here to find someone in this area but they seem to be few and far betweeen.


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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 10:11 am 
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There's plenty of guys that can help you in this area they just all at the nahrc test right now give them time to answer they will!!!!

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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 10:59 am 
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The ecollar is not the best way to teach him to stop on the whistle. The ecollar is used to reinforce all known commands, your pup may just not quite understand yet that he is supposed to stop and sit every time you blow the whistle. I used a rope to teach my dog the concept long before I used an ecollar. Try the rope, if it is not long enough get someone to help you.

I recently helped a friend with a similar situation, his 7 month old pup would not stop once he got more than 20 yards away. I stood out near the pile, but there was no pile, just 2 large white bumpers and when his pup failed to stop on the whistle, I picked up the bumpers denying the retrieve. A couple time of this a his pup is now stopping. Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 3:40 pm 
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It's not the matter of a 300' check cord, the point is consistency. He should stop the same at 10', 10yds, or 100yds but all that starts in close.

He should sit for you on a sit/whistle command and I would question if he has his formal obedience down pat, that should be first before working on casting. You have plenty of time so make sure he gets what you want him to do.

Take a look at Evan Graham's site http://www.rushcreekpress.com/ and the Smart Works system. Evan is really good about checking forums for questions, like this one: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=232 In the book, he explains the use of a collar and the correct use of force with an e-collar. Don't be afraid of the collar and learn to use it as the tool it's intended.

I have Smartworks and may get a couple of the DVD's as I progress.


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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 6:06 pm 
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Thanks for all of the advise everyone. All this info has been vey helpful I will put it to use and let yall know how it works.


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PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 8:18 pm 
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Mallard
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Rick618 wrote:
It's not the matter of a 300' check cord, the point is consistency. He should stop the same at 10', 10yds, or 100yds but all that starts in close.

He should sit for you on a sit/whistle command and I would question if he has his formal obedience down pat, that should be first before working on casting. You have plenty of time so make sure he gets what you want him to do.

Take a look at Evan Graham's site http://www.rushcreekpress.com/ and the Smart Works system. Evan is really good about checking forums for questions, like this one: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=232 In the book, he explains the use of a collar and the correct use of force with an e-collar. Don't be afraid of the collar and learn to use it as the tool it's intended.

I have Smartworks and may get a couple of the DVD's as I progress.



Well said .......the collar is the best training tool ever invented if its used properly (imho)

Shell Shocked you will have plenty of responses shortly

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 7:00 am 
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Mallard

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The object is to get the dog focused on you when you blow the whistle as a que to the next command. Go back and undo what you have trained and teach the pup that when the whistle blows, he is suppossed to be looking at you. Start it at 10 feet and work him on back until you can get him to stop and look at you out at 150-200 yards. Rome was not built in a day; this is gonna take time and a lot of repetition.
Going through the same thing with my dog now so I can empathize with your frustration,,,,

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 7:55 am 
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Will your dog walk calmly at heel on a lead? If so, we can get him sitting on a whistle reliably pretty quickly, at least at a short distance. Then you will have to stretch it out. If not, work on heeling because you have the cart a wee bit before the horse. Post up and let us know, and I can tell you how to start working it out.

You do not teach a dog to sit on a whistle, or anything else, with an e-collar. The collar is an awesome tool to enforce known commands as part of a formalized process. The problems folks get into is when they don't follow a sequential program, be it collar or non-collar, and try to "bake their own cake." Then, if the wheels fall off (and they fall off at some point with every dog) its a big ole mess to fix it due to the lack of foundation. Trust me.

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 8:16 am 
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Tundra Swan
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Shell Shocked wrote:
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Change your mind about the use of the e-collar. Training without one is like doing your taxes with an abacus.
The teaching is done without the collar. The enforcement of what has been taught is where you are having trouble.

I just know he's got to get this down before I can teach him to cast.
Well, technically no....you can go thru some of the beginning casting drills (like starting Force to Pile and mini T) without having whistle stop solidified but, you are gonna have to have it eventually to finish them.


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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 1:39 pm 
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GulfCoast wrote:
Will your dog walk calmly at heel on a lead? If so, we can get him sitting on a whistle reliably pretty quickly, at least at a short distance. Then you will have to stretch it out. If not, work on heeling because you have the cart a wee bit before the horse. Post up and let us know, and I can tell you how to start working it out.

You do not teach a dog to sit on a whistle, or anything else, with an e-collar. The collar is an awesome tool to enforce known commands as part of a formalized process. The problems folks get into is when they don't follow a sequential program, be it collar or non-collar, and try to "bake their own cake." Then, if the wheels fall off (and they fall off at some point with every dog) its a big ole mess to fix it due to the lack of foundation. Trust me.
Finally! A voice of reason!!! Give your dog the underpinning to build handling skills on. Formalize your obedience, and don't teach with an e-collar, but rather use it to enforce commands you've already taught.

EvanG

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 3:02 pm 
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:roll: :roll: Gulf Coast got a gold star :lol:
Sorry I did not get in your flight this weekend GC so you could drop me for bein' a smart azz :lol:

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 3:05 pm 
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duckdawg wrote:
:roll: :roll: Gulf Coast got a gold star :lol:
Sorry I did not get in your flight this weekend GC so you could drop me for bein' a smart azz :lol:

it helps to know people :lol:

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PostPosted: March 12th, 2012, 3:28 pm 
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duckdawg wrote:
:roll: :roll: Gulf Coast got a gold star :lol:
Sorry I did not get in your flight this weekend GC so you could drop me for bein' a smart azz :lol:


You were just skeered to run in the same flight with those Wildrose hounds! :lol:

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PostPosted: March 13th, 2012, 2:37 pm 
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GulfCoast wrote:
Will your dog walk calmly at heel on a lead? If so, we can get him sitting on a whistle reliably pretty quickly, at least at a short distance. Then you will have to stretch it out. If not, work on heeling because you have the cart a wee bit before the horse. Post up and let us know, and I can tell you how to start working it out.

You do not teach a dog to sit on a whistle, or anything else, with an e-collar. The collar is an awesome tool to enforce known commands as part of a formalized process. The problems folks get into is when they don't follow a sequential program, be it collar or non-collar, and try to "bake their own cake." Then, if the wheels fall off (and they fall off at some point with every dog) its a big ole mess to fix it due to the lack of foundation. Trust me.


Yea he does really well on the heel command. When I stop walking he will stop and sit without being told, he is glued to my side after he is given the heel command.


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PostPosted: March 13th, 2012, 4:07 pm 
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Tundra Swan
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This is how I would fix it. Its an old school but effective first-step to teach/solidify the whistle sit. I am no pro, but its how I was taught, and I have help fix 3 dogs with whistle issues/sloppy sits doing what follows. It will take about 4 weeks or so to get rock solid. If you alread "did this" go back and do it again, and get it SOLID.

Every morning and afternoon, put your dog on lead, and go for a walk, with your whistle. At random intervals, stop walking, and at the same time, tug straight up on the lead, and say “sit.” Praise the hell out of the dog. Make him think this is something he WANTS to do. Do this for several days. Even if the dog is rock solid, keep it up. And just give a firm tug, we are not trying to correct the dog, just give a stimulus for a quick sit to beat that tug (and as a side benefit, walk ups in hunt tests will be cake).

Now, after about a week of “sit” do the same thing, but with your whistle in your mouth. When you tug and say “sit” blow a sit whistle. Do this for a week. Then, do it again and don’t say “sit” just tug and blow the sit whistle. This is booring, you ain’t gonna want to keep doing it, thinking you got it licked. Keep doing it. You are chaining the whistle to the “sit” command. You are also taking steps to eliminate a loopy sit, without realizing it.

Now, take the dog for a walk on lead, and do not tug, just blow the whistle. The dog should sit PDQ, every time, and we have not whacked, burned, beat or screamed. Test this in the yard by just blowing a sit whistle, and if the dog sits PDQ, with you not in his sight, we are ready for the next step.

Let me know in a few weeks when ya got this done, and I will give step two. If I tell you now, you will cheat and go too quickly. I know this, since I would do the same thing! :lol:

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